1 month ago
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The erstwhile brag of Fujitsu UK has admitted having 4 meetings with Post Office main enforcement Paula Vennells, immoderate of which included discussing Fujitsu’s Horizon IT system.
Previous media reports had indicated that Michael Keegan, the hubby of erstwhile Conservative curate Gillian Keegan, lone met Ms Vennells erstwhile and that Horizon was not discussed.
Between 1999 and 2015, much than 900 sub-postmasters were wrongly prosecuted aft the faulty Horizon bundle made it look similar wealth was missing from Post Office subdivision accounts.
Lawyers for Mr Keegan said helium regretted that sub-postmasters were prosecuted unfairly and denied playing immoderate portion successful it.
Mr Keegan has confirmed to BBC News helium had 4 meetings with Ms Vennells during his 13 months arsenic main enforcement of Fujitsu UK, from May 2014 to June 2015.
Two of these were face-to-face meetings and the different 2 were telephone calls.
During his clip successful charge, MPs launched an enquiry into the Horizon software, and Second Sight, a squad of forensic accountants, were investigating the system.
Ms Vennells was main enforcement of the Post Office from 2012 to 2019.
In 2022, Mr Keegan successfully complained to the property regulator IPSO, astir a Sunday Times article. A summary of the ailment successful the IPSO ruling, indicated that helium had met Ms Vennells lone once.
Lawyers for Mr Keegan said that astatine the time, helium had lone remembered having 1 face-to-face meeting.
Post Office Minister Gareth Thomas said helium was amazed to perceive astir the meetings.
He said: “Certainly [the Post Office IT inquiry’s] conclusions astir Fujitsu volition beryllium 1 of the things successful peculiar that I look retired for successful [the] enquiry report.”
In effect to a Freedom of Information petition by the BBC, the Post Office said that aft a reappraisal of emails, it had located references to six meetings during Mr Keegan’s clip successful complaint but that it was "unable to verify whether each these meetings took place".
It besides said it did not judge the accusation it held was a "complete grounds of each meetings betwixt some parties".
Mr Keegan’s lawyers said 2 of the meetings referred to by the Post Office ne'er happened.
One conversation, successful 2015, betwixt Mr Keegan and Ms Vennells followed Fujitsu being approached by BBC Panorama astir its probe into the Post Office and the flawed Horizon IT system.
And contempt erstwhile media reports claiming that the Horizon strategy was ne'er discussed, a missive from Mr Keegan to Ms Vennells includes notation to the "current application". It appears that the exertion helium was referring to was Horizon.
In the missive dated 14 November 2014, Mr Keegan appears to beryllium arguing against the Post Office shaking up the operation of its IT systems, including Horizon, and inviting caller suppliers to bid to tally them.
He besides appears to suggest that the Post Office should support astatine slightest immoderate parts of Horizon and pitched this to Ms Vennells arsenic an "evolutionary attack that volition supply the integer beforehand extremity you request but volition clasp overmuch of the concern already made successful the unchangeable backmost extremity of the existent exertion [Horizon]".
Mr Keegan’s lawyers said that his engagement successful the Post Office declaration related to strategical and commercialized decisions, helium did not sermon the details of Horizon with Ms Vennells, and that the missive related to Fujitsu’s determination to exit arsenic the supplier of the Front Office Tower - the sanction fixed to the IT declaration which encompassed Horizon.
The documents uncover that Mr Keegan and Ms Vennells met for the archetypal clip wrong days of his assignment arsenic main enforcement of Fujitsu UK.
In an email dated 23 May 2014, helium writes: "It was bully to conscionable connected Monday."
He acknowledgment Ms Vennells for her "candour" and adds: "Within Private Sector, you are our astir important lawsuit by acold and I privation that presumption to stay arsenic specified for the foreseeable future."
His 2nd gathering with Ms Vennells is confirmed successful a missive dated 14 November 2014, which helium says is simply a follow-up to "our speech connected 31 October".
Mr Keegan’s lawyers said the archetypal gathering was not astir Horizon and was attended by respective different people.
They said the 2nd gathering was a abbreviated telephone telephone to pass the Post Office that Fujitsu would not beryllium bidding successful the procurement process to regenerate Horizon.
A fewer weeks later, according to the records disclosed by the Post Office, the 2 main executives met connected 2 December.
Ms Vennells followed this up with an email successful which she wrote: "Thanks again for the meeting."
Lawyers for Mr Keegan told the BBC this was the lone clip their lawsuit attended a one-to-one gathering with Ms Vennells and the intent of the gathering was to sermon Fujitsu exiting arsenic a supplier of Horizon.
The documents besides springiness the content of a adjacent relationship.
"Thank you for your clip and your honesty. We some person concerns successful this concern and I’m gladsome we were capable to stock them successful a frank way," Ms Vennells writes.
"I suggest we support regular interaction – and meal connected maine adjacent time, oregon a portion successful (REDACTED)."
Mr Keegan replies by email 10 minutes later.
"My pleasance and truly bully to walk clip unneurotic to sermon each these matters successful specified an unfastened way."
Mr Keegan’s lawyers accidental the brace did not support successful regular interaction oregon conscionable again successful person.
They did nevertheless person 1 further telephone call, connected 25 June, aft Fujitsu was approached by BBC Panorama astir the programme’s investigation.
The pursuing week Mr Keegan started a caller relation arsenic caput of Fujitsu Hardware.
The Panorama probe was primitively owed to aerial connected 22 June 2015 earlier being delayed until 29 June, 4 days aft Mr Keegan and Ms Vennells’ call.
The programme, which broadcast the grounds of a Fujitsu whistleblower, eventually aired connected 17 August.
The Post Office said it had recovered references to 2 different meetings implicit the last play of May 2015 but Mr Keegan denies they took place.
Mr Keegan’s lawyers told BBC News that the prosecutions of sub-postmasters arsenic a effect of Horizon information had efficaciously ceased by 2013, pre-dating his assignment arsenic UK main executive.
The BBC’s Freedom of Information petition was primitively made successful January 2024 erstwhile Gillian Keegan was acquisition caput and her hubby was 4 years into a Cabinet Office relation overseeing the government’s narration with a cardinal commercialized supplier.
The Post Office lone responded to the BBC’s petition successful August, much than six months aft the deadline required by law.
Mr Keegan voluntarily stepped down from his Cabinet Office occupation successful precocious January portion his woman mislaid her spot astatine the wide predetermination successful July.
Additional reporting by BBC News Investigations team
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