Justice Dept. Seeking to Question Pence in Jan. 6 Investigation - The New York Times

The Justice Department is seeking to question erstwhile Vice President Mike Pence arsenic a witnesser successful transportation with its transgression probe into erstwhile President Donald J. Trump’s efforts to enactment successful powerfulness aft helium mislaid the 2020 election, according to 2 radical acquainted with the matter.

Mr. Pence, according to radical acquainted with his thinking, is unfastened to considering the request, recognizing that the Justice Department’s transgression probe is antithetic from the enquiry by the House Jan. 6 committee, whose overtures helium has flatly rejected.

Complicating the concern is whether Mr. Trump would effort to invoke enforcement privilege to halt him oregon bounds his testimony, a measurement that helium has taken with constricted occurrence truthful acold with different erstwhile officials.

Mr. Pence was contiguous for immoderate of the captious moments successful which Mr. Trump and his allies schemed to support him successful bureau and artifact the legislature certification of Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s victory. An statement for him to cooperate would beryllium the latest singular twist successful an probe that is already fraught with ineligible and governmental consequences, involving a erstwhile president who is present a declared campaigner to instrumentality to the White House — and whose imaginable rivals for the 2024 Republican information see Mr. Pence.

Thomas Windom, 1 of the pb investigators examining the efforts to overturn the election, reached retired to Mr. Pence’s squad successful the weeks earlier Attorney General Merrick B. Garland appointed a peculiar counsel connected Friday to oversee the Jan. 6 probe and a abstracted enquiry into Mr. Trump’s handling of classified documents, according to 1 of the radical acquainted with the matter. Mr. Garland has said that the assignment of the peculiar counsel, Jack Smith, volition not dilatory the investigation.

Officials astatine the Justice Department did not instantly respond to a petition for comment. A spokesperson for Mr. Pence declined to comment.

The discussions astir questioning Mr. Pence are said to beryllium successful their aboriginal stages. Mr. Pence has not been subpoenaed, and the process could instrumentality months, due to the fact that Mr. Trump tin question to block, oregon slow, his grounds by trying to invoke enforcement privilege.

Mr. Trump has cited enforcement privilege to effort to halt different erstwhile apical officials from talking with investigators. While those efforts person mostly been unsuccessful successful stopping grounds by the officials to a national expansive jury, they person importantly slowed the process.

Mr. Trump’s efforts to dilatory oregon artifact grounds included asserting enforcement privilege implicit grounds from 2 of Mr. Pence’s apical aides: his erstwhile main of staff, Marc Short, and his wide counsel, Greg Jacob. But some men returned for expansive assemblage interviews aft the Justice Department, successful a closed-door tribunal proceeding, fought the effort to use enforcement privilege.

Mr. Pence, who rebuffed Mr. Trump’s efforts to enlist him successful the program to artifact certification of the Electoral College results, has been publically captious of Mr. Trump’s behaviour successful the run-up to the Jan. 6 battle connected the Capitol and connected the time of the attack, erstwhile members of a pro-Trump mob were chanting “Hang Mike Pence.”

In interviews for the merchandise of his caller book, “So Help Me God,” Mr. Pence has asserted that “Congress has nary close to my testimony” astir what helium witnessed, contempt efforts by the House Jan. 6 committee to person him archer his story.

“There’s profound separation-of-powers issues,” Mr. Pence told The New York Times successful an interview. “And it would beryllium a unspeakable precedent.”

But Mr. Pence, according to radical acquainted with his thinking, sees the Justice Department enquiry otherwise fixed that it is simply a transgression investigation. His grounds could beryllium compelled by subpoena, though nary has been issued.

The erstwhile vice president is being represented by Emmet Flood, a seasoned Washington-based lawyer who served arsenic the pb Trump White House lawyer dealing with the probe by Robert S. Mueller III, the peculiar counsel, into imaginable conspiracy betwixt the Trump run and Russia successful 2016.

Mr. Flood is representing respective different apical White House officials who find themselves arsenic witnesses successful the scope of legislature and Justice Department investigations into Mr. Trump, including Mr. Short.

An expanding fig of high-ranking officials successful Mr. Trump’s medication person received expansive assemblage subpoenas arsenic portion of the Justice Department’s enquiry into a wide array of efforts to overturn the election, including a program to make fake slates of pro-Trump electors successful cardinal plaything states that were won by Mr. Biden.

The wide-ranging subpoenas sought accusation connected a big of subjects that included the fake elector plan, attempts to overgarment the predetermination arsenic having been marred by fraud and the interior workings of Mr. Trump’s main postelection fund-raising vehicle, the Save America PAC.

The effort to question an interrogation with Mr. Pence puts some the section and the erstwhile vice president successful uncharted territory.

Mr. Pence is considering a run for president successful 2024, successful a contention that Mr. Trump has already announced his candidacy for. And Mr. Biden’s Justice Department is seeking to usage Mr. Pence arsenic a imaginable witnesser against Mr. Trump; either could extremity up arsenic rivals to Mr. Biden should helium tally again, which helium has indicated is likely.

Mr. Pence has written successful item successful his publication astir Mr. Trump’s efforts to enactment successful powerfulness and the unit run helium imposed connected his vice president opening successful December 2020.

Among different interactions helium describes, Mr. Pence details however Mr. Trump summoned him to the Oval Office connected Jan. 4 to conscionable with a blimpish lawyer named John Eastman, who repeatedly argued that Mr. Pence could transcend the ceremonial duties of overseeing the Electoral College certification by Congress. Mr. Eastman was promoting the conception that Mr. Pence had the powerfulness to acceptable speech the results from states wherever Mr. Trump was inactive trying to situation the outcome.

Mr. Pence writes astir telling Mr. Trump that helium did not person specified authority. In an interrogation with The Times successful transportation with the book, Mr. Pence was forceful, saying that helium was blunt with Mr. Trump that helium could not bash what helium wanted.

“In the weeks earlier Jan. 6, I repeatedly told the president that I did not person the authorization to cull oregon instrumentality electoral votes,” Mr. Pence said successful the interview. “It was wide helium was getting antithetic ineligible proposal from an extracurricular radical of lawyers that, frankly, should person ne'er been fto successful the building.”

In that play of time, Mr. Trump began to publically unit Mr. Pence, arsenic good arsenic officials successful Georgia, to spell on with his efforts to stay successful office. At the aforesaid time, Mr. Trump began utilizing his Twitter relationship to effort to gully a assemblage to Washington for a “protest” astatine the Ellipse adjacent the White House connected Jan. 6, the time of the legislature certification.

The Times has previously reported that Mr. Pence’s main of staff, Mr. Short, called Mr. Pence’s pb Secret Service agent, Tim Giebels, to his West Wing bureau connected Jan. 5, 2021. When Mr. Giebels arrived astatine Mr. Short’s office, the main of unit said that the president was going to crook connected the vice president, and that they would person a information hazard due to the fact that of it, a speech that Mr. Short described to the House prime committee. The committee released a video snippet of Mr. Short discussing it astatine 1 of its nationalist hearings this year.

Mr. Trump addressed the assemblage astatine the Ellipse astatine midday connected Jan. 6 and again pressured Mr. Pence, whom helium had called a fewer hours earlier successful a further effort to transportation him to spell on with the last-ditch program to artifact the certification. In his code astatine the Ellipse, Mr. Trump said: “You’re ne'er going to instrumentality backmost our state with weakness. You person to amusement spot and you person to beryllium strong.”

He went on: “So I anticipation Mike has the courageousness to bash what helium has to do. And I anticipation helium doesn’t perceive to the RINOs and the anserine radical that he’s listening to.”

A abbreviated clip later, Mr. Trump’s supporters marched to the Capitol, wherever Mr. Pence was. Hundreds of them stormed the building, smashing windows and barreling done doors, forcing Mr. Pence to fly the Capitol and instrumentality refuge connected a loading dock.

Mr. Pence wrote astir the acquisition successful his book, and has since described his choler that Mr. Trump was “reckless” and “endangered” Mr. Pence and his family.