Lukashenko: No heroes after Wagner mutiny, Belarus leader tells BBC

It was Alexander Lukashenko who had brokered the woody to extremity the Wagner mutiny. So we're told.

So if there's anyone who tin radiance a airy connected this murkiest of stories, surely it's the person of Belarus. Or truthful we hope.

We're portion of a tiny radical of journalists invited to the Palace of Independence successful Minsk for "a conversation" with Mr Lukashenko.

Only a fewer weeks agone there'd been feverish speculation astir his health. But the Belarusian person intelligibly has stamina. The "conversation" lasts astir 4 hours.

Instead of shining a light, though, helium muddies the waters connected the caller Russian uprising.

According to the statement betwixt the Wagner Group and the Kremlin, Wagner main Yevgeny Prigozhin was expected to determination to Belarus, on with immoderate of his fighters.

That hasn't happened. Not yet anyway.

"As of this morning," says Mr Lukashenko, "the Wagner fighters, precise superior ones, are inactive successful the camps they'd withdrawn to aft Bakhmut.

"As for Yevgeny Prigozhin, he's successful St Petersburg. Or possibly this greeting helium flew to Moscow. Or possibly he's determination else. But he's not successful Belarus."

I inquire Alexander Lukashenko whether that means the woody is off.

He denies that. It feels arsenic if determination are conversations going connected down the scenes we're not going to told about.

When it comes to discussing the mutiny, Moscow and Minsk person not precisely been connected the aforesaid page.

Last play Russian authorities TV declared that President Vladimir Putin had emerged from these melodramatic events a hero.

"I deliberation that no-one came retired of that concern a hero," Mr Lukashenko tells me.

"Not Prigozhin, not Putin, not Lukashenko. There were nary heroes. And the acquisition from this? If we make equipped groups similar this, we request to support an oculus connected them and wage superior attraction to them."

"God forbid I should ever person to instrumentality the determination to usage them," Mr Lukashenko had said recently, adding, "But I won't hesitate to usage them."

I punctual him of those comments.

"Joe Biden could accidental the aforesaid thing, and Prime Minister Sunak," Mr Lukashenko replies. "And my person Xi Jinping and my Big Brother President Putin."

"But these are not your weapons we're talking about," I constituent out. "They're Russian ones. It's not your determination to take."

"In Ukraine a full service is warring with overseas weapons, isn't it," the Belarusian person retorts. "Nato weapons. Because they've tally retired of their own. So wherefore can't I combat with idiosyncratic else's weapons?"

But we're talking atomic weapons, not pistols, I reply.

"Nuclear, yes. They're weapons too. Tactical atomic weapons."

As you tin astir apt conjecture from his atomic comments, Alexander Lukashenko is simply a arguable figure.

The US, EU and the UK bash not recognise him arsenic the morganatic president of Belarus. In 2020 Belarusians poured connected to the streets to impeach him of stealing the country's statesmanlike election. The protests were brutally suppressed.

I notation the lawsuit of jailed absorption activistic Maria Kolesnikova.

"For months her relatives and lawyers person been denied entree to her successful prison. Why?" I ask.

"I don't cognize thing astir this," helium claims.

"The past clip I interviewed you successful the autumn of 2021, determination were 873 governmental prisoners successful Belarus," I punctual Mr Lukashenko. "Now determination are 1,500."

"There is nary nonfiction successful our transgression codification for governmental crimes," helium replies.

The lack of an nonfiction connected governmental crimes doesn't mean determination are nary governmental prisoners, I constituent out.

"Prisoners cannot beryllium governmental prisoners, if there's nary article," helium insists. "How tin they be?"